My ex doesn't allow me to travel overseas with the kids. My entire family lives overseas. My ex allowed me to travel with our first child when she was a toddler but now that we are separated he won't let my kids travel to meet their family on my side.
No court orders but I am fearful of him due to the way he treats me if anything doesn't go his way.
What can I do? My parents are getting to an age that they can't travel anymore and I really want my kids to meet their aunties, uncles and cousins. I also miss my family terribly.
What can I do? Im not a flight risk, Ive been in Australia for 15 years, hold a stable job, have a lease on a rental, my kids go to school here, I have no interest in leaving Australia but my ex says "I don't trust you".
Ive told him I would provide return flights, facetime and address of every place they go.
The country we would travel to is part of the Hague Convention.
We do 50/50 and me taking them on a longer holiday would affect his time. I have offered for him to have them for longer when I get back and he says no, thats not the point.
He refuses. I think he likes having the upper hand on this and it hurts so bad.
It's cruel. I just want to go for 2-3 weeks to visit my family but most importantly I want my children to meet my family. I haven't seen my siblings in 8 years. Some of my nieces and nephews where kids when I last saw them and now they are almost adults.
Anyone been through this and what can be done?
This is a place where women from different backgrounds, cultures and beliefs come together to support one another judgement free.
38 Replies
This was on a legal aid website, assumed there are no court orders because you haven't mentioned them...basically he can't stop you unless you have court orders stipulating overseas holidays. If you have proof you're coming back theres not much he can do.
What do I need to do if I don't have court orders?
You should try to reach an agreement with your ex-partner about the proposed overseas holidays. This could be done by writing to your ex-partner (for example, by text or email) and sending them the details of your proposed overseas holiday.
You may travel overseas with your child if you do not have Family Court orders in place for your child or a current Family Court case. However, you must bring your child back to Australia. If your child is not returned, your ex-partner (or another carer) may start a court case for your child's return.
A friend of mine lost her children because she trusted her ex. She wrote a book to warn others of the dangers. It's why I'm not upset that I don't get to see my own nephews. My ex sister in law is a real piece of work... But I understand her decision not to let my brother bring their kids to Australia. It is a risk I wouldn't be willing to take with my own children.
Also, the Hague convention can take years to result in children being returned. It isn't something that removes risk.
I know a family that had their children returned to Australia very quickly after the Mum moved them to her home country. I also have a BIL with a child in the UK and he has the same rights as if she was here, they have court ordered care arrangements that are one and the same in both countries. I'm not sure if that goes for all Hague Convention countries or commonwealth countries but I know NZ is the same. You are allowed to take your kid for a holiday to see their family.
If you know someone who had the kids returned quickly, they didn't put up a defence. It can be years in many situations because they suggest that they left for a safety reason and claim asylum
She couldn't, it's the exact same as if she took them to a different state. She moved without his knowledge and he put a recovery order through the courts and the children were returned within weeks.
I'm the OP.
I don't want to leave Australia... EVER!
I just want to see my family and most importantly I want my children to see their family and have the experience of traveling and seeing there is more to the world than just this one country.
Im not interested in leaving permanently.
I would provide return tickets and the country I would travel to requieres permission with a signed letter from the other parent where it specifies a return date. I have to go to the consul of said country in Australia with my ex to sign the letter.
Like it's really strict and yet he's like "no, you can't go". It is horrible.
Different commenter...It's a risk he isn't willing to take and I don't blame him. My ex wanted to take my children overseas, I went also.
Is he from overseas or you just weirdly followed them on a holiday lol.
Im Australian but I grew up overseas because my dad is from a different country.
He is Australian.
Yeah well that's strange to follow, what did you think he was going to do?
Inviting him is a great idea.
OP seek legal advice
i'm the follower, not sure who the person is who is answering, he is from overseas...anyway,I had my own holiday plus my kids refuse to go without me, they aren't comfortable. Him and his new family don't make them feel particularly loved or a part of the family. Lucky I went when they were young, it didn't even go well when they went with him for the day. Now they're older they just won't ever go with him, so it's the only way for them to see family. You get what you put in with kids. No tagging along, I am an independent woman, can have my own holiday lol
when they were young, i did worry about the risk of kidnapping, its not a joke, it absolutely happens and women have no rights in his country.
at my kids age now, happy for them to go alone with him, but as i said, they aren't comfortable, its actually a pain...
People who are planning to take their children back to their home country buy return tickets and do everything to ensure their ex feels safe letting the kids go too. He's drawn a line because the consequences if you did break his trust are so high. I understand you don't want to do anything wrong, but you need to understand his position too. It's the difficulty of raising a child in another country in a separated family.
Although you have the best intentions, so much could go wrong and being overseas, the father has no control. What if something happened to you and your family refused to give them back? What if you meet up with an old flame and everything suddenly changes for you and you want to stay? What if your mum gets sick, you stay, ends up being months in hospital and she dies and you decide you can't live away from your family anymore? Or your child, god forbid, ends up to n hospital for months and with all the family support, you decide you can't leave when they recover. He has no control, I takes risks, but never with my kids. I've known married spouses that won't allow it, it's your kids, your life.
OP here. The country is part of the Hague Convention - this means the children will be returned to the father should I be ill or any other of the situations you wrote there. The children can not stay in that country.
I haven't read any comments, just came here to say, my ex husband has a rental, a fancy job he gets paid a lot at and manages to hide it from CS, he isn't what you'd call a flight risk either, but over my dead body would I let him take my babies overseas where he too has family. He's been telling the kids for months he's taking them to meet family, and there is no way in hell I'll be signing for their passports, it goes both ways though, my partner is from England, and it's always been a dream of mine to travel there, and I'd love to take my kids, but I know he wouldn't allow it out of spite. I understand you want your children to meet them, I truly do, but imo getting passports opens up him taking them and leaving the country and not coming back. And that's something I personally couldn't risk.
There's no risk with England, its part of the Hague Convention and also a commonwealth country where family court orders are valid from one country to the next. So if he decided to keep the kids in England you would just go through the court for a recovery order and they would be returned to you. I have family that have a custody agreement for a child that lives in England, its no different to having one for a child that lives here. You can't have it both ways, you can't call him spiteful for not allowing you to go overseas with them when you are doing the same to him when he actually has family there. You're depriving your kids of getting to know where their father is from and his family, they could benefit from that.
It doesn't matter what country, it's a big RISK. Gosh people flee with their kids within the same country and partner can't find them.
You will have no say if he goes to court, you will just look petty.
OP here - replying to FB since I can't do it there anonymously.
I don't have passports for the kids. The passport I had for one child had expired and the other child I haven't traveled with them.
In terms of traveling with him, he is highly verbally abusive towards me so I don't think that would work. I would offer if it helps but I would still need boundaries in place (no way he can stay in the same hotel as me etc). My family don't want him near them for the way he treats me.
Anyways, seems like I have to somehow afford a lawyer to simply be able to hug my family again. :(
Thanks everyone for taking the time to write a reply.
I've travelled with the ex, you don't stay at the same place obviously and he doesn't need to see your family, what have their views got to do with it? Verbally abusive, you don't spend any time with him overseas, he does his thing, you do yours, so it's not an issue. Paying for his airfare would be a lot cheaper than going down the route of court/lawyers, for passport, plus permission to travel. There's the easy cheaper way, or the hard way. If you really don't intend on staying, him coming and a few brief moments of discomfort, would be worth it. You can hug your family, just not with your kids.
I don't get how you think that would stop someone from running with your kids? How would being in a foreign country be helpful, you wouldn't know where they went or how to find them or where to get help. You obviously were never worried deep down about your kids disappearing because merely being in the same country wouldn't have stopped that. If he wanted to he would have. People need to stop having children with people from other countries if they are going to act like this.
OP here. Ive read your comment a few times and I can't make sense of it?
I am Australian- I have dual citizenship, I grew up overseas and then came back here - my family history is quite complicated. He is Australian and has never traveled.
I wouldn't travel without his consent which is why I am looking for advice on how to go about it.
I wouldn't "just go" like some people have said either...
if you are there in the country, there's a lot more you can do...idiot...
No need for rudeness.
There really isn't because you would be going through their police, their lawyers, their systems and you might not get taken to seriously if you don't speak their language and are essentially a tourist. Our federal Police know what they are doing with this, our lawyers know what to do and there would be procedures in place to deal with it. You would turn it into a very expensive ordeal with extended accommodation, travel, food which could be better spent on lawyers in Australia that could help you actually get your kids back.
What a load of crap...you could de escalate the situation, talk to the ex, family, hop on a plane quick smart with child if things seem off, get your child to consulate, or you get to consulate, a million different scenarios, but being at home guarantees you can do nothing until you realise, losing previous time. Much better to be there, take action immediately. The longer it goes on for, the more expensive and longer you don't have the child. Plus the child knowing they aren't alone, you're still in the country, not a million miles away.
If child is an Aussie, with an Aussie passport, you will be taken seriously, what a ridiculous comment. Let's just say I have a little experience in this area, all countries are different and I don't claim to be an expert, but there are things you can do in some cases to nip these things in the bud immediately. Again, everyone is different and so are situations, but I've seen first hand what can be done immediately to de escalate volatile situations like this and had that thought literally, what if I hadn't been here...you sound like you have no experience in this and think the afp will magically find and get your kids back.
So if you're staying in a separate hotel and not going along with them to activities, how are you going to save your kids if he had planned to stay in that country? Do you think he would check in with you first? No, I wouldn't think so. You are better off at home.
Idiot, talking about shit you know nothing about...
I might be an idiot but if I was going to do a runner with my own kids in my home country while my ex was in his hotel room around the corner, I would just take off without a word and he would have no idea how to find me. I assume that's what most people would do if they want to do that with their kids. There would be no opportunities to de escalate, no taking the kids straight to airport, no contact with family. I would be gone and he would have no idea where I was. Only the authorities would be able to track me down, not my ex in a country that he's not a citizen of and has very little power there, no access to legal aide, doesn't know his rights, doesn't know the law, doesn't know one end from the other. Even if he finds an embassy they will be contacting Australian police to work with them anyway so he's no closer than what he would be if he were at home with his own lawyer, talking directly to police, with his family support.
stop talking about things you have zero experience in...
Oh lord so much bad advice here. You can’t just take them but it’s simple, you go to court and the judge will allow passports without his signature. You deserve to go and see your family with your children and the court will agree. Start the process now
Nobody meant go without a passport, that's impossible lol. The OP's problem is the visa which needs both parents.
I'm in almost the exact same situation as you. Some of the comments on here must be hard for you to read and I don't think anyone really understands or can give good advice unless they've been in that situation themselves.
I initiated mediation ( due to issues in addition to the ex not allowing our son to have a passport and travel overseas), and we agreed during mediation that the ex would allow our son to have a passport (and sign the passport application) provided we only travelled to Hague Convention countries, that I provided a month's notice of the travel (unless it was a family/medical emergency) etc. At mediation, you can prepare a parenting plan, or, if the ex is still worried (ie doesn't trust you), you and the ex can agree to file a consent order (with the court) in which you state the conditions by which you will travel, timeframe within which the ex should sign the passport application or renewal. Ideally you'd also want to hold the passport. I can provide more details (or check certain details for my case) if you're interested. The consent orders would be legally binding (in contrast to a parenting plan), though actually you and the ex do not need to follow them as long as you are agreeing (this is more applicable to parenting arrangements). If the ex does not follow a consent order, eg sign passport, you'll be able to follow up with the court. Hope this makes sense. A family lawyer would be able to word things better than me!
If you're in the Newcastle area, I can recommend an excellent family lawyer, who also has a very good understanding of domestic violence. Reasonably priced too.
If you can't afford a lawyer, you can apply for a legal aid mediation. It may take a couple of months for you to be assigned a mediation date and a legal aid solicitor but. The legal aid solicitor would also be able to draft consent orders for you.
I totally understand your situation as I'm the same...I have absolutely no intention of leaving Australia permanently and would never take my son away from his dad. But it's hard for me to convince him of that.
Just another comment: The court would agree that it's in the children's best interests to visit their grandparents and cousins. Good luck
OP here.
Exactly, I don't want to take the kids away from their dad and I have no intention in just leaving. You get it.
There is also a lot of verbal abuse on his part so would really appreciate info on your lawyer. Thank you soooooooo much
Im in Newcastle.