Our 14yr old is getting beyond what we can deal with. She refuses to have anything to do with her step dad (who she calls dad) to the point she wont come out of her room if he is home. She hasnt seen her bio dad for over 8yrs. She says she doesnt want to live with her bio dad or any other members of the family (only options are 75yr old recovering alcoholic or 65yr old grandparent who lives in over 50's community) there is only one Aunt who has already stated clearly she wont take her at all. She has been hospitalized twice this year for suicidal behaviours. Has scars all over arms & legs from cutting. Has thought of over dosing on her anti-depressants and is now also on anti psychotics. Has diagnosis of asd, ocd & anxiety. She is now saying she will kill herself if she doesnt get away from us. Thatshe cant help herself if she is around us. She is demanding we put her into foster care, she is physically abusive towards me & her sibling as well as constantly verbally abusive. Does anyone know what we can possibly do??? She needs somewhere safe to live nearby as we & her school have done so much work this year we dont want that work lost because of her moving away. Is there any option aside from foster care? She isnt abused or hurt here although she swears she has been abused her entire life. So she has a safe loving home so i doubt foster care will consider her. I worry she will run away or try again to kill herself. WHAT CAN I DO!!!!!!!
Foster care? / Alternative living for 14yr old
Foster care? / Alternative living for 14yr old
Posted in:
Parenthood Guilt, Health & Wellbeing, Teenagers, Tips and Advice, Aspergers & Autism
24 Replies
There are mental health units, speak to her mental health doctor/ psychiatrist as they know the ins and outs of the systems/ placements etc in your area. Also talk to who ever is responsible for disability funding in your area. In south australia that is DisabilitySA as they will have some options. Foster care isn't the correct option in this case, but there are mental health 'units' where children can live.
She has already been there and done that...
And landed in one of the biggest pot holes our mental health system has.
if she goes to foster care I think she will be bumped from family to family. There are 'teen' housing where the teenagers live together with support of housing in SA. That might be worth exploring?
1. Webster packs....it will limit how much she has access too...
2. Vitamin D b6 fish oil and b12
3. Do you own or rent? Is building a small cabin or granny flat out the back an option?
4. Do you have friends you can ask?
5. Have you considered speaking to friends parents maybe speak to the chaplain they would know who is best equipped to handle her Behaviour. .....
Or you could always send her my way......jk
Honestly get her off the antidepressants and have her reassessed they got the diagnosis wrong...
Alcoholism is a common red flag for acute mental illness....they can squabble all day and night about which came first the chicken or the egg....but acute mental illness doesnt come from no where the early symptoms are just rarely recognised...
How long ago was she put on antidepressants and how long after her starting them did she start cutting and how long after starting them was she put on antipsychotics?
I literally wager $50 that you are dealing with misdiagnosed bipolar disorder.....
Stop the antidepressants NOW keep the antipsychotics and have her reviewed.....
Asd and pead bipolar overlap in a ridiculous number of symptoms they also are not mutually exclusive and a history of alcoholism and addiction in the family is considered a red flag.
Unstabilised antidepressants for an individual with bipolar 1 is a perverse form of chemical torture well above and beyond that even inflicted by the disorder itself. They cause switching mixed states and rapid cycling...oh yeah and a condition called akathesia is the 9th level of hell....caused by many psych drugs. It could all very well be the driver behind her desire to go.....go anywhere but here...everything that has you now pulling your hair out....whatever you do don't let them label her borderline...
Its the label they put on their too hard basket
You cannot just 'stop' taking antidepressants, that will make any problem worse! Everyone knows this. Also, a webster pack is designed for people on many different medications, to make it an easier, streamlined approach to medication, it DOES NOT prevent overdose. I cannot believe you are giving this advice, you could be 100% wrong. Do you know these people? Are you a mental health nurse or doctor, psychiatrist, anything??? You have given incredibly dangerous advice here !
If i had a child like this i would be admitting her into a private facility for mental health. So she can get diagnosed, speak to therapists and get things straightened out. The public system is too overer loaded and wait lists are too long to rely on public system.
Oh there is also the possibility that what you are seeing are complex partial seizures....those drugs lower the seizure threshold a ridiculous amount.
Its all such fun when the system chews people up and spits them out...psych services wont help btw they dont like admitting they are wrong.....
The other lady is right you may need the help of a private specialist. I highly recommend doctor Jiang Zhang his consulting suites are in Richmond Victoria next to The Melbourne Clinic.
He is a practicing psychiatrist and a professor of neurology.
Let me guess she is prescribed lovan/Prozac/fluoextine and seroquel/Quentiapine......
Himself did the same thing in 2008 on that lovely little cocktail and their only answer was to keep upping the dose making it worse every time....
If not for taking him off it all and going to Zhang for him to be baselined and diagnosed he wouldve wound up a long term drooling resident....
In his down time Zhang actually does regular tours of public wards regularly rescuing those thus afflicted by the mental health system.
Antidepressants should NOT be a front line treatment!
Oh the bad news.....
These drugs are noxious with a disgusting half life and terrible withdrawals (do not mistake them for relapse)
There are drugs which can counter the withdrawals but they don't prescribe them in this country....there is an antihistamine....you used to be able to get over the counter which helps.....BRB will dig up its name.
Cyproheptadine
Giving it to her will actually let you know if you are dealing with drug induced akathesia.
About 2 years ago they finally found the mechanism of addiction of antidepressants... that shit is more addictive than pure morphine you can develop a physical addiction to them in under 48 hours.
The number of times I have had to rescue his aunt from antidepressants is absolutely ridiculous....
The community crisis assessment team get called in visit her throw her on antidepressants and walk away...and a week later the police are dropping her in footscray psych ward because oh look she is psychotic.....and they keep her on the damned antidepressants and wonder why she doesn't improve....
So many times I have had to call the ward and say look your privacy policy doesnt matter a rats I dont need to know anything I need to tell you something take her off the damned antidepressants and put her on a moodstabiliser if you ever want her stable enough to send home SHE HAS BIPOLAR NOT DEPRESSION!
She has at times sat in there for a month or more (seriously I doubt they ever read anyone's file) and its only been her mother calling me in desperation listing the drugs they have her on which leads to the phone call and her finally being released....
She has a son who either lived by latch key or goes to stay with grandma around the corner every time they do it to them too...
Its absolutely ridiculous they just don't care they have their pet drugs and they use them as straight jackets when used appropriately these drugs CAN actually treat these disorders.
The average time it takes to diagnose bipolar disorder from first onset of symptoms in australia is 10 years....seriously they leave people living like this for a decade on average before admitting they got it wrong....
And antidepressants permanently destabilise bipolar disorder....
Rapid cycling and switching were basically unheard of prior to the invention and widespread use of antidepressants....the classic presentation of bipolar.... ie my daughter is almost NEVER seen today......but she has NEVER been given an antidepressant.
Are you a doctor or what? What is your medical qualifications? You cant tell this IM to stop het daughter's anti depressants when you have only read a couple paragraphs of her story! You cant just stop anti depressants willy nilly.You need to wean off them slowly and that is for the doctor (who has access to the patients full file) to decide!
If you have seen this you take them off them as quickly as humanly possible. I have been a carer for the mentally ill for 25 years primarily dealing with misdiagnosis and recovery from the damage it does.
They literally carve themselves up....if you have seen a loved one doing this you do what you can...this isnt the scratches and hesitation wounds of those with borderline....they carve themselves up....
Those with borderline who cut cut to release endorphins to relieve their emotional pain...this is different very very very different.
The antihistamine listed will basically counter the antidepressant in her system while she weans and reduce the withdrawals....I have been there and done this a number of times before.
Psych services WILL NOT help in these circumstances because it would involve admitting FAULT.
Which means THEY GET SUED!
If you are VERY lucky you may find a psych nurse or doctor who will give these instructions but most WONT because it means saying that another doctor made a serious mistake and even those who do will never provide a written statement to that effect...
Missing akathesia or complex partial seizures and throwing antipsychotics on top is an incredibly ridiculously common mistake in the mental health system and there are reams of research on how common a mistake it is and how harmful it is to patients.
They basically cause a condition and in prescribing antipsychotics they ADD more drugs to the cocktail which ALSO cause it only compounding the problem.
If the diagnosis was accurate the treatment would work.....not be getting progressively worse.
She is 14 years old and has already had 2 psych admissions and the medications are NOT seeing improvement.....by now they shouldve it take 8 weeks to know if it's going to work......its been a God Damned year and throwing on an antipsychotic isnt exactly revisiting.....its a straight jacket to manage her on ward is what it is...
Removing the antidepressant, the antipsychotic alone should deal with the most acute symptoms they do alot more than people realize and are far more effective than antidepressants for anxiety symptoms. She hasn't been diagnosed with depression....only anxiety disorders...and the antipsychotic can more than handle that on its own.
Antidepressants have a black box warning for a reason. Do you know what a black box warning is? They cause suicidal behaviour particularly in children.....alot of research is linking it with these other issues along with seretonin syndrome....but its real.
These are instruction we have received from a couple of professionals who will never go public on this issue because it could cause thousands of lawsuits. But they do actively research it.
We were literally fkd around by 5 different hospitals who wouldn't go near him because they could see what was happening but didn't want to deal with it and 3 different psychiatrists before we finally got some "I will deny it if you ever say I told you this" suggestions and pointed in the right direction...
Akathesia is in fact the most common cause of noncompliance by psych patients.
Dealing with these drugs when they go wrong you are literally on your own.
The good news is she can google these conditions terms and drugs and verify it all herself....
So take your indignation and stick it where the sun don't shine! I refuse to be the person who leaves this desperate mother groping in the dark and even resorting to all but abandoning her daughter to try to keep her alive just to stay within your delicate standards.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/182310/thread/1022363525/SSRI+INDUCED+AKA...
Here you are someone has been nice enough to unlock some of the articles from behind the journal pay wall....enjoy the reading...
(Although you can access most journals using a university library log in or even some public library memberships depending on the level of the libraries subscription some university log in's are limited to the area of study... it's a good thing my area of study was psychology)
Akathesia is reversible tardive dyskinesia isnt
AKATHISIA IN HEALTHY VOLUNTEERS May 26 2002, 1:29 AM
http://www.drugawareness.org/Oldsite/healy.html
Extract:
"In the first clinical trial of its kind, Dr David Healy, director of the North Wales Department of Psychological Medicine at the University of Wales, gave Prozac to a volunteer group of mentally healthy adults and found even their behaviour was affected. He said: 'We can make healthy volunteers belligerent, fearful, suicidal, and even pose a risk to others.'
Healy says between one in 20 and one in 10 people who take Prozac can be affected by akathisia, whereby they become mentally restless or manic and lose all inhibitions about their actions 'People don't care about the consequences as you'd normally expect. They're not bothered about contemplating something they would usually be scared of,' he said."
http://davidhealy.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2003-Risk-of-Suicides-w...
http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/articles/drugs-medical/pharma_lawsu...
There is alot of hype in the US in relation to big pharma as they put it....
Unfortunately while it doesnt quite require tinfoil hats and paranoia....the bad news is there is actually substance to all the claims....
I would try any other schools of drugs before ever giving any of my children an antidepressant or atypical antipsychotic.....primarily because I have had to clean up after them first hand far too many times when the system dumps them as treatment resistent rather than swallow their pride and say whoops we got it wrong.
Psychiatrists are the most arrogant arseholes on the face of the earth and they are actually rare as hens teeth and very protected as a result in this country because they have to study medicine then an additional 3 years on top to get the position. There are psychiatrists STILL PRACTICING in australia even after being charged with sexually molesting patients.
Their patients are THE most vulnerable in our community... do you think people believe schizophrenia patients if they say they were raped?! No and their testimony gets absolutely shredded in court. They are easy targets for abusers.
My youngest the mood stabiliser she is on is an antiseizure drug... its also 100 times more effective than any of the atypical without sedating them or cognitive dulling...I'm more comfortable using it because it is far more widely used in children because epilepsy is 100 times more common in children so they know more about it.
The sedative/antipsychotic we used is one of the oldest in existence....very chemically similar to thorazine but 10 times milder.....so mild that mental health teams don't use it because it isn't the greatest chemical straight jacket....as iv said when she was full blown manic at best a very large dose would knock her out for 5 hours and barely keep her functional....but we don't use it long term either......its a crisis drug....and so mild you can buy it over the counter. It is commonly known as phenergan.
Im sorry but nobody should be telling someone to stop taking there medication, that is beyond the stupidist, most dangerous thing to say. If you were a doctor you would be smart enough to know that giving that advice without knowing a full history and meeting the patient could get you sued and a child DEAD.
If you work in mental health, you are overstepping your bounds and should still know better!
100% agree. So so wrong!!
Completely agree! Reckless and dangerous!
OP please don't take that advice without seeing a dr
She can and should check the info out herself, there is loads of info on the subject she now has the relevant terms to find it. The reality is the fatalities from these drugs are ridiculously high. The child will end up dead if they continue the way they are.
It is actually quite disgusting that legally the hospital and psych services are significantly better off NOT fixing it and just saying the disorder is what killed her than admitting that their treatment actively made it worse. Its suicide she did it to herself. The most common cause of acute onset of akathesia is weaning her onto the drugs to quickly.
But once a person develops it a first time their chances of it happening again are incredibly high and it occurs faster at lower doses each consequent time. The child will now be sensitive to psych drugs and prone to this problem.
Those who develop akathesia end up being labelled hard cases, noncompliant or difficult patients. Which actually says more about the attitude of psychiatrists than their patients. In no other speciality do the doctors blame the patient for basically becoming allergic to the treatment from overexposure or overdose.
http://bipolar.about.com/od/diagnosis/a/challenges.htm
Found this amongst my Facebook memories from 2010 (had suspicions for a long time) australia does not look for bipolar in children AT ALL....it is why she was such a well kept secret the thought of her being put on adhd meds or worse while manic were truely horrifying.
I had a man in the house who has regular manic episodes....I could see what was happening...it was something by that stage I was familiar with.
Anyway its just a health article which is more general than specific but I does discuss many of the risks...bipolar in children does happen...so does autism and adhd but because australia doesnt look australia doesnt find until they medicate them....and the option isnt even in front of them.....they ONLY diagnosed my daughter because her mania is literally chart topping by the time they saw her....the level she bounces is beyond anything adhd acheives..they had no choice but to diagnose her.
Good luck getting her help.
As someone who is down the track in the same situation
As I read this , this WAS me when I was in that same age bracket between 12 and 15 - I personally know I would have still been down the exact same road if my parents hadn't up'd and left the town I was living in ( the people I was hanging around with) I was a sheep I followed the crowd - my attitude changed I was aggressive , was cutting my body up severely etc
I now come across many young people in the same mind frame I was in at the young age and I'm all for helping and talking to them.
i come from a very loving home but still my parents were my worst enemy , why? I still can't give you an answer for that.
I'm so sorry you are going through this , it's going to be a very long battle and I hope you both can pull out the other side safe and happy xxxx
Maybe worth seeing a really good naturopath too who can work along with her treatment.
Also I am pretty sure police can have ppl scheduled if they threaten suicide. I am not sure from what age though... apparently a very quick way to receive help.
Hmmm I've worked in an ED where we constantly have children your daughters age coming in with the police or ambo's for threatening suicide, self harming, drug abuse , anxiety , depression , wanting to run away from family coz they are too strict etc etc aaaall the time ! Sometimes it's the same kids every second day !! These kids aren't abused, they have behavioural problems and borderline personality disorders ! If you can't handle her at home any more you could relinquish care sure ........,, or you could ride out the storm and don't give up on her , coz if you do her life will only get worse in every way !!!