I have been pondering a situation which occurred whilst I was at university (so just over 20 years ago). I lived in a small residential campus and there was a Dr onsite (he and his wife lived there too). My health was not very good, so I had to see him regularly for medical assistance. I guess you could say we got to know each other quite well.
Anyway one night at a party we both attended he had obviously had a few drinks. He asked me to come outside to his car and listen to a song he liked. Me being young and naive followed him (i had also had a few drinks). We sat and chatted for a few mins (not sure how long) and listened to the song - then he reached over and put his hand suggestively on my leg. Then he started kissing me and put his hand down my top. I pulled away and got out of the car and went back inside to the party.
The next day he rang me and asked to speak with me - essentially he appologised for his actions and begged me not to tell his wife (who I saw a few times a week at meals etc in the college). He of course blamed alcohol plus the fact he'd been so stressed/busy with his further studies. Not wanting to cause a scene let it go - as I was in no way harmed by the incident.
For reasons (not related to this at all) I have had reason recently to reflect on a few scenarios over my life and this memory has popped up. I'm not sure what I should do - If I knew i was the only student/person it wouldn't concern me - but what if he did this to others? I left the residence at the end of the year but I'm not sure how much longer him and his wife lived there? Google now tells me he is a top surgeon and seems to have a big reputation - I don't wish to damage that at all.
I'm confused if I should do anything or let it slide? I was not harmed and we had both had too many drinks. I was 19 at the time. The only person who knew about it was my boyfriend at the time - but I downplayed the incident in a big way as in my eyes I figured I had 'cheated' on him.
**Edit - I was a naive country girl when I went to Uni and had lived a pretty sheltered life. I was not sexually active and I did not expect his advances at the time. I'm not sure why I went with him, I guess trust and naivity are a bad mix...
33 Replies
I should probably add that I did have medical reasons to see him several times after this incident and there was never any other issues, nor mention of the situation again.
Well you did go back to him after the incident, so mustn’t have caused you to much distress,
Let it go and move on with your life!!
I would personally just let it go. You mentioned it caused no harm so I'd move on from this.
I think let it go. It was 20 years ago after all.
I’d let it go,
20 years is a long time!
I’d let it go. Not because he is a top surgeon, and not to save his career.
I’d let it go, because he sounded genuinely remorseful, his behaviour doesn’t sound predatory, it sounds more innapropriate. I also don’t get the feeling you felt unsafe or harmed by the interaction.
I think you should leave it. He was out looking for an affair, you formed a friendship he wanted to see if he could take it further. You said no, nothing else happened from what you’ve said. He didn’t push you into sex just rang and apologised. So you didn’t dob on him and that was it. No as your doctor he should not have tried to form that kind of friendship with you but if it didn’t go any further there’s every chance it happened again with someone else except it was someone willing to help him cheat on his wife.
Looking for a pay out are we? Go back to your life. Far out - nearly every person on here has probably done something they were not too proud of drunk , probably even you - how about we have someone come back 20 years later to bring it up.
Inappropriate advance at worst. Imagine the devastation to his children to have this brought up.
I think from my post I was pretty clear that I did not want to harm his career etc. I was mainly thinking of others. Should I morally have reported the incident at the time or should I bother now? Yes I was a uni student who had a few drinks (was certainly not very drunk however), but he was in a position of power and I was a bit vulnerable. I'm not sure what the age gap between us would have been - probably around 10 years or so.
Oh yes you’re right so powerful that he asked you do go out to his car to listen to a song and you were so vulnerable (and stupid) to think that’s all he wanted.
I’m sure you weren’t the only one, he probably was a bit of a womaniser but he was not in the car with you in his capacity as your Dr. He was like any other dirty filandering husband at that party hoping for a bit of easy young arse. Don’t kid yourself- the wife won’t thank you for bringing it up (because she probably already knows).
Ffs. Attacking the victim & excusing the toxic behaviour much?
OP I have to wonder why this memory popped up. It’s now playing on your mind, so it obviously had some kind of impact on you. HE kissed you. Did you reciprocate? HE put his hand down your top. You got out & walked away. He touched your body in a sexual way without permission. That is assault. He should’ve been able to tell before his hand went down your top if you were into it or not.
He then acknowledged it, excused it and apologised - to save his own marriage & career.
I won’t suggest that you report it. People do grow & change & id hope for the best. He may have gone on to cheat numerous times on his wife. That’s not your problem.
But I do wonder if you could use some counseling to figure out your own emotions.
^^^^ clearly a parent of a girl * rolls eyes *
Fuck off eye roller
Parent of 3 girls actually. How fucking dare I not accept that my girls will be treated like pieces of meat for pieces of shit!
Also parent of a son who will under no circumstances learn that this is acceptable behaviour.
I have thought about these kind of situations recently as well. Is it the current climate that is showing us how often this shit happened and how silently we all have gone through it?
I agree to let this one go now, but perhaps make a decision and promise to yourself about how you will act on similar situations in future. I think it's a good time to start being vocal. Tell the story about the sleazy doctor. Let girls know that we went through this bullshit but its not acceptable anymore.
I completely agree with this.
I experienced quite a few things in my younger days that would cause mass outrage today, but at the time it just wasn't spoken about (and I'm only in my 30s). There's no point reporting them now but damned if I'll be quiet about them!
We've had a massive culture shift in the last few years, victims aren't speaking about these incidents 20+ years later for payouts, they come forward because they finally realise what happened to them wasn't acceptable, they are finally given a voice.
How is she a victim? He made an advance, she declined, he apologised. WTH? She doesn’t say he forced himself on her? It didn’t happen in his surgery, or In a doctor patient scenario, there’s no abuse of power.
There are plenty of occasions where women should be reporting and are victims- this is NOT one of them.
If you bumped into your doctor at a party, current day and he asked you to come outside for whatever reason, you oblige, then he then tries to kiss you/initiate sex, would you not feel a little bit victimised or at least taken advantage of in an innapropriate way?
I know that would leave me feeling very uncomfortable and I'd be questioning the professionalism of that doctor 🤷♀️
If we want to be treated as equal then we need to stop playing stupid and acting like we are vulnerable as naive when we are not. Come on be honest - a guy wants me to come listen to a song in his car...hands up who doesn’t know what that means.
In my 20’s A senior work colleague asked around to his house for lunch - I didn’t think “hhhmm he wants to share a vegemite sandwich with me”, i knew it meant he’d like some afternoon delight - ah no thank you.
Some people are impressionable, some people are trusting to a fault (and why wouldn't a young woman trust her doctor?), not eveeyone is that cynical, some people have been very sheltered or aren't aware of certain nuances and innuendos.
It's like the age old "wanna come in for coffee?" line, some people would still think that literally means coming in for a cup of coffee!
This is where the lines of consent get blurred, "Oh but I asked her to come out to my car and listen to a song, she knew what that meant", ah but you know what, maybe she didn't!
I dont think it matters if this happened 20 years ago or yesterday, that doctors actions were undeniably innapropriate and he took advantage of a drunk patient. A doctor today would likely be facing potential dismissal and legal action if we're being real!
Oh stop. A married man and doctor shouldn't hit on students where he works. It's sleazy and disgusting and degrading to any woman he tried it on. She is the victim of his bad behaviour while he was in a professional capacity, and I'm sure there were others. He can be held accountable.
I could be wrong but my understanding is there is no time frame for abuse or misconduct with a child but for an adult it’s maybe 7 years???
I think the answer to should it be reported? If it happened today, the answer is yes, definitely. Because it was so long ago i think thats where the personal conflict comes in, its up to you and the law and no one else can answer that, but it is your story to tell. Perhaps telling it on an old university forum might start a discussion and bring out some new information or even help you put it to rest in your mind.
Same here. I was 17/18 and one few women with over 30 men at work.No way did I think hey they want to chat and listen to music/watch movies only
So I've done a bit of googling.
According to the medical board of Australia, initiating sexual conduct with a current patient falls under the spectrum of behaviour that is considered a breach of sexual boundaries between doctor and patient. Even if it's consentual.
Legalities (copied and pasted):
These guidelines are issued under section 39 of the Health Practitioner Regulation National Law, as in force in each state and territory (the National Law).
I don't know how far back these current laws go, but given that 20 years ago was 1999, I would think it's a safe assumption that some laws to that effect would have been in place at that time.
I actually urge you to look into it, he may well have broken the law by making sexual advances. Look into it, consider the situation and what you know of it, consider the likelihood of him taking advantage of young students/patients and maybe then decide on how to proceed.
There are very good reasons why such laws exist, there is an almighty imbalance of power between doctor and patient, doctors are usually trusted deeply by their patients which makes them easier to persuade, influence and take advantage of!
My advice would be get appropriate legal advice, have a chat with your family and see how they feel about having their family member splashed all over the media if it ends up in court. by your own admission you were done no harm, tread carefully this could end very badly for you if this was 1 drunken mistake.
Yes, actually I think that would be very wise. If he's fairly high profile, this likely won't be pretty for anyone involved, but who knows, maybe this one person coming forward may lead to others to follow suit (if there were others).
I definitely wouldn't act hastily though, this needs to be thought through thoroughly!
Doesn’t sound like he abused you, he stopped when you pulled away..
No I wouldn't report it. You pulled away and left and no more happened after that. It sounds like a one off drunk mistake which I'm sure many of us have had lots of. It was over 20 years ago, let it go.
In this case I feel like I wouldn’t do anything. It’s been so long. And he stopped as soon as he noticed your disinterest. And he apologised afterwards because he obviously regretted what he did.
If something like this ever happened again, I agree you speak up straight away.
Considering you felt comfortable enough to continue to see him for medical reasons, You must not have at the time felt unsafe or abused or pressured.
From what you described, you formed a friendship, at a party he made an advance, you kissed, you pulled away, he accepted your rejection and that was it.
He should not have initiated anything. He shouldn't even have been partying with students, but I think you should let this go.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks him partying with the students was wildly innapropriate!
Sounds like this particular doctor played fast and loose with appropriate doctor/patient boundaries back in the day. It probably won't do any good to report it 20 years later, especially if no actual harm came from the incident.
His behaviour was definitely not ok though!
I think people are overlooking the fact this man was this woman's doctor.
Had he been her dry cleaner or barista, him cracking on would have been a non issue (apart from being sleazy as hell, though that's not a crime).
It is unethical for a doctor (of either gender) to initiate sexual or romantic advances towards a current patient, even if they have full consent. This happened in the 90s, I fail to believe that there would have been no laws or even university policies prohibiting such practices at that time.
Should it be reported, can it be reported? That's not really for any of us to decide, the OP needs to let her moral code make that decision!