Hi everyone ☺
*trigger warning - disturbing sexual behavior *
This is going to be long, VERY long so I apologise in advance. I just want to try & give as much info as possible. Thank you if you make it to the end.
I am very happily married with two amazing babies (almost 3 & 11 months) but I have a very dark cloud that just will not budge. I think what I am mainly asking is how you would cope, what you would do & how do I get past this situation..... I'll start at the very beginning.
I met my hubby 11 years ago, when we first met I knew straight away his brother was odd, it was xmas eve & we were at his auntie house, i noticed his brother going into different rooms when he was meant to be in the toilet, my first thought was this guy is a thief, I didn't say anything at the time.
On boxing day I went to spend the night with my b/f, he lived with his parents & brother. After chatting with his family we were going to head out, I went to his room to get my things to get ready but my bag was missing, when I asked b/f where it was he told me he had hidden it & then proceeded to tell me his brother has a 'thing' for womens underwear. He told me straight out that his brother had gone through previous girlfriends belongings and pretty much all of his mates girlfriends/sisters/mothers things also, he also told me he steals underwear from people's clotheslines. He had been caught doing this a couple of months earlier & had to go to court, he received a good behavior bond.
So this is a bit odd but each to their own, if he wants to collect & wear women's underwear thats not really any of my business, I was very greatful my b/f was so honest with me.
Fast forward a bit & i notice my b/f cops a lot of banter from his mates regarding his parents sex life......b/f explaines to me when he was 11 he spent 12 months traveling in a caravan with his parents. Every night they had sex in the caravan with both of their sons in there (they had a sheet up for privacy) the sex was very degrading to his mother & his father often hurt her sexually, if she didn't do as he asked or had upset him at some point he would make her do things she didn't want to & he even used to pierce her cliterous whilst she was crying & begging for him to stop. All of this whilst 2 young boys listened. His parents were also nudists & made by b/f be nude in uncomfortable situations when he was just a child.
All of this really freaked me out but I had no idea what or if I should do anything about it.
So eventually we start living together & i get to see just how manipulative his mum is, she will literally do anything to get her own way, her own way is only in regards to her sons. They don't have a relationship really & she will lie & push & push for them too. She just wants a big happy family & will go to any end for this to happen.
My b/f & i decide to build a house together, his parents some how convince us to move in with his brother (recent break up with his g/f, no one really knows why) to save money.
Whilst living there my b/f tells me he thinks his brother is doing some bad stuff so we do a bit of snooping & find out the following.
Stealing underwear, this underwear ranges from 2-3year old girls to 50-60 year old womens items. School uniforms of primary & secondary school girls & bathers of all age groups.
Explicit photos of him in the underwear.
Photos of the girls who lived next door to him in their pool (maybe 9 & 11) & a pair of binoculars.
We were also informed he was driving his car around with P Plates to try & pick up teenage girls, he was 25 at the time.
After all of this my b/f said he wasn't comfortable living there as he is a school teacher & really cannot be associated with anything like that. I told b/f he had to tell his parents what was happening or I was going to the police.
We met with his parents, told them everything we knew & that we were moving out. We were then told if his brother was to lose his house it was our fault (he couldn't afford to live there alone) & that nothing had every been a problem until I started giving my opinions. It was as this point I turned into the horrible daughter-inlaw.
After telling them we would go to the police they said they would deal with it.
His dad went around & they burnt everything the brother owned & claimed he had a counseling session but the counselor said his fetish was very common & nothing to worry about.
This all caused huge issues between us & his family, we ended up having a very large falling out & I seeked counseling as I wasn't dealing with it all very well. We ended up having a mediation session & everything was pretty much swept under the rug.
I spoke with my b/f once he proposed to me & told him that if we were to ever have kids they would never be left alone with any of his family. He was sad about this but understood.
Many years later we are marred with our 2 beautiful babes & i have stood by my word but things are starting to get difficult & i am struggling.
My MIL really force's my kids on to my BIL, she constantly has a camera in their face taking photos of him with our kids. She emails hubby all the pics & has them all around her house. She has no photos of us with our kids. My BIL also has photos of himself with my kids in his home.
Now my MIL has started with wanting the kids at her house. She says they are comfortable there now & they need to sleep over. She wants time one-on-one with them & believes its important for them to have that time with their grandparents.
I will not ever let this happen, I am not comfortable with what they exposed their own children to & i believe a lot of my BIL issues are due to this.
I also know she would invite my BIL to her house to spend time with our kids without us there.
My husband supports me at the moment but I can feel that this is going to cause us big issues the more my MIL pushes & manipulates everyone.
I am at a point where I am thinking about all of the horrible things my inlaws have done pretty much constantly. It is absorbing me. I dont trust them & I would literally throw myself in front of a train before I ever let my BIL be alone with my kids. I have started to feel a lot of anger towards my inlaws & I don't even want to see them anymore.
As they say you cant choose your family but dam I got stuck with some very disturbing people.
I know I need to talk to a professional about this but I need to know how others would deal with this?? I feel like maybe im holding on to so much because I don't like them but then I feel like im very justified in not liking them.
Also at what point do I be totally honest & tell them everything I know (they don't know that I know anything really)& thats why they don't get alone time with my babes.
Im so bloody confused & I just don't seem to be able to deal with any of this.
Obviously this is a very short version of 11 years worth of information.
Note: I will NOT leave my husband, somehow through a very messed up childhood he has come out normal. He is actually absolutely amazing & I do try to be very thoughtful of the fact that this is his family.
Thank you if you got through all of that.
I really appreciate any advice or helpful words or anyone who may have been in a similar position.
36 Replies
So sorry your going through all of this. If i was in your shoes, i would keep the children away from the BIL at all costs and wouldnt leave them alone with the in laws. I was reading what you wrote and it send shivers down my spine, your BIL behaviour isnt normal, that is red flag behaviour. Contact the police. It may cause family drama, but you have two children to think of.
I wont go into detail but growing up a male family member had similar behaviours as your BIL and this male family member tried to take pictures of me in my underware....i was a pretty switched on kid and told someone i trusted....ive never seen that male family member again.
Trust your instincts. Protect your babies.
Your husband and you need to put up even firmer boundaries and be prepared to cut his family off entirely.
You are all playing Russian roulette with your children's lives.
There is no way you can be sure your kids are safe around those people. They have no boundaries and children have been molested in public areas with there parents present without there knowledge. There is no way any of them would be getting within 5 metres of my children.
Its not only the sexual abuse, there is obviously an incredibly toxic dynamic in this family that children should not be around.
Thank you for your reply.
Can I please ask what kind of firmer boundaries you would recommend?
I would like to be able to tell them how I feel because then i feel as though my MIL would stop with the pressure of having our kids without us.
Its obviously a very difficult situation.
I mean not allowing the BIL around the children AT ALL. I mean making it known that the conversation is NOT up for debate and if they can not respect that, then they leave and are not allowed around the children.
If you have information about the BIL taking underwear and having photos of the children, you go to the Police!
Having them involved in your lives at any level is incredibly dangerous, so for me those boundaries would be out of my children's lives full stop.
Thank you.
If my MIL didn't push it so much I really don't think my BIL would have anything to do with any of us. Myself & husband hardly speak to him & vice versa.
When all of his behavior became really apparent (photos of children & children's clothing) we cut all ties with him, but my MIL has just managed to manipulate all of us to a point that we can actually be in the same room as one another now.
I don't know why but his behavior is just tolerated by everyone. He stole his own cousins underwear & everyone was just able to get past it.
He got caught red-handed snooping through my husband's best friends sisters draws & was just told to get out of her room.
If my brothers caught someone going through my things they would end up in more trouble than the snoop.
I seem to be the only person who sees his behavior as sick.
I am so sick of being the bad guy, I am so sick of the manipulation, I am sick of the guilt trips and i am sick to death of having to watch & worry about my babies in my own home. I am sick of the constant fight in my mind & the guilt I feel. I am sick of the anxiety it causes me & the amount of time I have had to spend biting my tongue.
I no longer have any info on my BIL all of this happened about 6-7 years ago but i am 100% certain he would still be doing all the same things.
Someone can't just snap out of behaviours like that.
I think youve become desensitised to the crazy and youre being pushed. Somewhere though, you know this is not right. Let me tell you - its not right. Your children should not be around these people!! They should never ever be entrusted with your kids, they have and still are showing really poor judgments and ignoring flags for child safety in favour of keeping up appearances and having close family relationships with the kids. Move away if you have to. Do not let her have the children alone, they are in quite serious danger of abuse in her care or having abuse ignored.
Also think of this, if your kids grow up with them as trusted family, where are your grandkids going to end up when uncle jimmy comes to visit etc etc.
Your reply hit me like a big bus, right in the face 🙁 you could not be anymore right. I have become disensitised.
Its definitely time to go & see a psych & get some coping strategies & some advice.
I have actually got to a point where I think maybe I am the crazy one.
You know what it gets really hard to know whats sane and right when everything youre hearing is so forcefully asserted as truth/normal, and its very easy to doubt yourself -noone wants to be the troublemaker that always rocks the boat. This is what happens in an abusive relationship, you end up not knowing which way is up or down and making some really bad decisions.
Distance and outside peoples opinions is your best chance at keeping the balance. A psych would hopefully help you make an informed decision as well. All the best.
I really don't know what is right or not anymore.
It has actually taken me posting this to have a little bit of clear perception.
I think maybe myself & hubby have just been manipulated for so long now that we don't even know when its happening anymore.
It is a subject that I am not very open about with people as it is all very humiliating for my hubby & as I said in the original post, its still his family, this toxic women is still the mother who raised him & I just can't ever fathom someone ever expecting me to cut ties with my family. Though my family are amazing & offer us endless support.
I won't allow a friend who was accused and cleared of abuse (his daughter told her mother that daddy had a big penis) around my children JUST in case. If I'm inviting him to something it's definitely a no children event. If I think there will be children, I don't invite him.
I know that might sound like an over reaction, but I only know his side and its my job 100% to protect my children.
Can I ask please, does this friend know he is not trusted to be around your daughter?? Does he know you don't invite him to things where children will be??
If so how does he feel about this?
I know I don't have to care about how any of my inlaws feel but the thought of actually saying to them 'I know EVERYTHING ' & my children will never be left with you, fills me with the most horrendous guilt.
Yes he absolutely knows and Agrees that I would be insane to allow him near children. He has said to me, if the roles were reversed he would not take the risk either.
He knows you don't take risks with children! He has also made a decision not to date until his kids are old enough to vocalise what did/didn't happen.
Its good to know he understands & supports you.
I know if we said my BIL was to have nothing to do with our kids my MIL & FIL would most definitely not understand. They have always just made out that everything that happened was not really a big deal. I actually don't know how they would react but thinking about it scares me.
When we fought about my BIL with my inlaws, my FIL screamed at me over the bench in my own home that I was a fucking trouble making little bitch.
Now that we have the kids & they want so much to be such a huge part of their lives I just can't imagine how all of this is going to unfold...
More reasons why you need to get them out of your lives. They are abusive. You are in an abusive controlling relationship with your in laws.
OMG - someone screaming at me in my own home would never set foot in my home again. That alone is enough for me to cut them the hell out of my life, let alone the events that lead to the yelling. Honey cut them out!!!!!!!
I feel like MIL might be grooming you to hand your kids over for the BIL. Sorry. Normally I read ppl comment on things and think it's a massive over reaction... But this whole situation feels like your kids are on their way to abuse unless you and especially your hubby protect them at all times. Personally, I would be seeing a lawyer for advice
Thank you for your reply.
I am in no way defending my MIL but I think she pushes my kids onto my BIL because deep down she knows he will never actually hold down a real relationship or have children of his own. I think this breaks her heart because she blames herself for all of his behaviours.
As i said i am most definitely not defending her, I actually despise her.
Can I please ask what kind of advice a lawyer could provide??
I am at my wits end but the absolute last thing I would ever want is for any of my inlaws to have rights to my children.
Do you see this as maybe one day being a legal battle???
Something isn't right here at all!!
I'd be cutting contact, all together! I would not risk my children's future for any family members.
I'd also be reporting to police. You never know how many ppl his actions may affect.
To be honest, I'd be moving if I were you.
Far away from his family.
They're all manipulating you.
Did you ever think maybe the parents got off on knowing their kids were in the same room as them having sex?
Maybe your BIL was abused by them?
There are huge red flags in this post, and I'd be running fast!
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU LEAVE YOUR CHILDREN WITH ANY OF HIS FAMILY.
You're completely right in all the way you're feeling. Very very very odd family and NO your MIL doesnt need time alone one-on-one with your children.
When my MIL has said she needs one on one with her grandkids it makes me feel sick and she doesn't even have ANY behaviours like this. It's just very odd to me. Your MIL can still form a bond with your children WITH yours or your husbands supervision.
This is all kinds of wrong, and you are absolutely justified in feeling protective over your children and for not liking them.
I hope you can see someone soon because you don't need to be consumed by the situation although it is a big one.
You need to cut contact with this family immediately. Your kids are young enough to protect now but as they get older they will be more independent and grow up thinking this behaviour is somewhat normal or acceptable which it is not. I agree with what another poster said about your Mil grooming your kids. They might not try anything now but who's to say your bil doesn't pick up the kids one day from highschool and sexually abuse them. Cut contact now and don't look back. Just because they are family doesn't mean they should be in your life. This post sent absolute shivers up my spine when I read it. You sound like great parents and don't let your in laws make you think otherwise. I really feel for you putting up with this shit for so long.
Thank you, I am slowly going mad!!! This has been 11 years of hell but I absolutely adore my husband. Without him I wouldn't have my beautiful babies, he is a phenomenal father & hubby, I honestly don't know how he has come out the end of such horrendous circumstances so normal.
Both of my kids will be taught from a very young age never are they ever to go anywhere with their uncle or Grandma or Grandpa without mum or dad, but now as I write this I can see how easily children can be manipulated & now this is another thing I have to worry about........
We are actually planning on moving 1.5hrs away within the next 12 months, I need to be closer to my family and much further away from my inlaws.
Also make sure both your wills are up to date. Just incase. You really don't want your kids to be stuck with these people should the worst happen. You need to attend counselling with your husband so he can understand how important it is to cut contact with his family. It is going to be hard for him.
Thank you for your advice re our wills. This is something I will definitely get onto.
I don't want to come across as 'ditzy' or 'niève' but i really think my judgement and decision making is affected at the moment.
Do you think my husband could still have a relationship with his parents if he chose to but me & the kids not??
I just dont think i could give him an ultimatum- us or your family. I know he would choose us but how long before he resents me for doing that to him & our marriage turns to shit, then what on earth would happen when he had time with our kids without me (say if our marriage was to end) his mum actually manipulates him without him even knowing it. I would have absolutely no control over the situation & that scares the shit out of me.
He can go visit his family. I just wouldn't be sending the kids or going.
What I don't understand is why everyone is more concerned about your FIL/MIL and their feelings/reactions than the children's safety. I think your husband needs to be the one to seek therapy. He has almost accepted this toxic environment as normal. When you said "I spoke with him and said if we ever have kids they will never be alone with any of his family... he was disappointed" excuse me, what?! He was disappointed? He should have been the one setting that boundary, not you! So if he didn't have a wife who was strong enough then your husband would be happy to race his children alone around these people. Even after finding little girls underwear and pics of children in his brothers house?! I'm sorry, your husband may be a nice man and a great husband but he has not come out of this Normal at all... that is not normal!
To be honest, if this were me I'd either just tell them to back off it's not happening. This is why, if you don't like it too bad, they're my kids. Or I'd move away. Far enough away that it's a lot of effort to visit.
Your husband could also benefit from learning strategies to combat his mothers manipulating. She has so much power and influence because he lets her. Help him to take back control!
I would love to the other side of the country and cut all ties. I have had similar experiences not as extreme and no way allow my children to be exposed to what I was.
My inlaws are not allowed to spend alone time with our children either, too many lies and sweeping important things under the carpet. My husband is 100% on my side in this, although our situation is different and includes jail time (grooming our niece under the grandparents roof) and drug use. Fortunately for us, they don't make an effort and we don't either but are polite at gatherings - we don't ever go to their house. I would suggest to start by keeping distance from them. Attend less and less gatherings and when the MIL starts running her mouth you NEED to tell her that you won't be doing whatever it is she requests and that it is your job to protect your children. She doesn't have to like it but your kids, your rules.
Your only problem here is your husband. If he was as amazing and well adjusted as you say he is, then he would be advocating to keep your kids separate from the in laws as strongly as you are. No amount of manipulation from mil should be able to convince him to allow your kids in the same room as his brother.
He is not such a fantastic catch if you are both not on the same page about this. But you definitely could never leave him now. He would get part custody, and the kids will end up abused by the brother.
Exactly! I'd be looking at husband now too, he's a teacher, working with vulnerable kids.....
What a terrible position to be in! Always trust your gut instinct. Yours is telling you not to trust these people with your children, so don't!! I know you love your husband, but if you ever feel that he's being worn down and about to give in to his family, take those kids and run ... their safety comes first!!
Your BILs behaviour will only become worse without Police intervention, don't hesitate any longer to report it, and wipe your hands of him.
Has hubby had counselling? If not, I'd want that to be a regular occurrence. He might appear 'normal' compared to the other 3 fucked-up family members, but no-one comes out of that shit unscathed...
I would report it all to the specialist sexual assault police unit.
Hubby is a teacher? He needs to remove himself from these people. This shit will come out, either by you reporting it or anyone of the victims.
None of this is your fault. Unless you do nothing.
Get a transfer to a school far far away from them. Start a new life. This will not end well, and it's not up to you or hubby to protect these fucked up deviates.
So, you want to protect your children, that's all well and good, but what about my children, and everyone else's children....
I would not even have my child sit on his lap, even if I was in the room, that's just fucking creepy, and no to any photos being taken, and then kept in his home, ewwww NO FUCKING WAY!
You need to do some research about pedophilia and grooming, that shit will snap you into action!!!
Protect your babies never leave them with these people. Their behaviour is all wrong wrong wrong.. pedophiles
Omg your poor thing, I'm so sorry for what you are having to deal with
Please wipe this sick sick family out of your life completely
Have nothing to do with them, never let them in your home
Your husband needs to respect your decision that these sick people are To have nothing to do with you or your children
If he wants to see them then he does it alone
The risk is just so high that your children will be harmed by these sick people if you have anything to do with them
Please stay Strong and never give into them
I wish you all the happiness
It sounds like you are dealing with deranged individuals. Possibly narcissistic sociopaths or psychopaths. There individuals are not fully functioning. Keep your children WELL away from them.